Is Jill Tubman Right, that Francis L. Holland is a "Bull in a China Shop"?

Cross-posted at the Francis L. Holland Blog and Blue Mass.

Recently, for doing battle with Kos and his minions over their attacks on Hillary Clinton, and for slamming the (white male) candidates once favored by the "progressive Left", Jill Tubman of Jack and Jill Politics and MyDD characterized me as "a bull in a China shop".  

Jill said,

Francis L. Holland is the uninvited guest. He is the bull in the china shop. He says the things that people don't want to hear. That other people are afraid to say. And people are noticing.  Jack and Jill Politics

In this "bull in a china shop" metaphor, if I am the "bull", then who is the fragile "china"?  Are the political ideas of the whitosphere so fragile that the slightest bit of irreverent examination will shatter them like glass?  Are the egos of the white male paradigm proponents so fragile that they cannot bear to have a Black man hold their ideas up for public inspection, to demonstrate their flaws for all of the world to see?

My ideas and my challenges are only powerful to the extent that others might agree with them.  If my ideas are silly, then eventually everyone will conclude that I am a clown and nothing I say will be taken seriously no matter where I publish it.  But, if my ideas are compelling and challenging, then there is, indeed, the risk that by charging around speaking my mind I might modify the minds of others.  

THERE is the china to which Jill was referring - the fragile concepts of white male supremacy, founded in a slew of lies and perpetuated by a common agreement that anyone who breaks this china is an aggressive bull.  Call me a bull, then!  I'm going to break the white-male supremacy china!

It will not surprise me if my posting privileges are eventually removed at many if not all "progressive" blogs.  At one time, it was illegal in many American states even to teach Black people to write.  Frederick Douglass  Princeton.Edu  Why, during slavery, did whites make it illegal to teach Blacks to read and write, if not to perpetuate our servitude?  Whites must have been terribly concerned what the slaves might write about were they to put pen to paper.

During slavery, it was illegal to teach blacks to read and write. Can anyone doubt that this created fundamental inequalities that gave whites an advantage that was sponsored and institutionalized by the government?

After slavery, we find the separate-but-equal doctrine that, at first glance, appears to correct discrimination.

But this policy instead perpetuated the defects, deficits and disadvantages created by the prior discrimination based on race.

The 1954 Supreme Court decree also perpetuated the DDDs - defects, deficits and disadvantages - by treating equal access as if it were equal opportunity. Think of the earlier separate-but-equal doctrine as a circle with a line down the middle.

Blacks are on one side, whites on the other. In 1954, the Supreme Court erased the line. In short, everyone has equal access to all parts of the circle, without regard to race.

But the Supreme Court did not mandate equal opportunity. That would have dealt a death blow to white supremacy.

To understand how equal opportunity differs from equal access, reflect on the picture of an Olympic track and runners. One track goes uphill, another downhill; one is strewn with rocks, another with glass; and the fifth is both level and free of debris.

No runner is excluded, and each can start at the same time and run the same distance.

But equal opportunity presupposes a level playing field.  http://www.fsu.edu/~fstime/FS-Times/Volu me3/nov97web/9nov97.html

Bill Jones, Director of Black Studies at Florida State University has said,

To set up a policy which puts the blame on black people is a false causality. Look at education. Go back to slavery. It was illegal to teach blacks to read and write. The U.S. government had a policy of total exclusion. That was legal segregation, which was what you had under apartheid.  FSU  Black Issues Book Review

Then, with the laws of slavery guaranteeing that Blacks could not learn to read and write,

U.S. Sen. John C. Calhoun, the famous fire-eating defender of slavery, once said that if he "could find a Negro who knew the Greek syntax, he would then believe the Negro was a human being."  Toledo Blade

Whites historically have not wanted Blacks to learn to read and write simply because they knew intuitively that they absolutely would not like what slaves would write, if we were permitted to write anything at all.

Meanwhile, am I really an "uninvited guest" at the whitosphere blogs?  Is a "progressive" Democratic blog not an open invitation to the public to share diverse Democratic ideas?  I only become an "uninvited" when those who have extended an open invitation to the public nonetheless suddenly decide to withdraw and rescind their ouverture with respect to me.  

The "progressive" blogosphere is like a theatrical playhouse where the owners and even the audience may disconnect the lights at any moment if they dislike the content of the play.  Far be it from "progressives" to simply walk out on a play themselves, leaving those who do NOT walk out to continue enjoying the festivities.  Once progressives decide that a play has no value, they act on a strong need to assure that no one sees the play.  "Banning" which is the digital equivalent of burning a book while forbidding the author to write another one for this audience.

In the competitive marketplace of "progressive" ideas, the best ideas should win the competition - not merely the ideas favored by those who own the means of production.   Just as white men for so long needed to ban Blacks from universities, sports and employment to prevent us from competing and winning, the whitosphere progressive blogs are another "playing field" in which white men can win by banning Blacks' participation.

If I write hysterically, certainly others will ignore me.  But, if I publicly and convincingly identify a crime and its culprits, then the risk to my posting privileges increases proportionately.  It is really the response of others to my writings that most shows which of these is taking place.



Display:


I guess so (2.00 / 1)

Keep posting Francis. You are one of the few diarists that adds something to the site, that makes people think about their own views.

I don't always agree and you seem to get plenty of abuse but in the long run I think you contribute a lot. If the netroots is to increase its influence nationally, it really does have to learn to partner with other strands of the left.

Right now it seems that many amongst the netroots don't want to listen to the views of minorities but perhaps in time they will.


by kundalini on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 11:05:55 AM EST

Thank you, Kundalini! (none / 0)

I would say more, but you've said it all and I have nothing to add.


by francislholland on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 11:58:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Are you his enabler? (none / 0)

A broken clock is right twice a day. Just because Francis has identified the obvious need for more diversity in the blogsophere(which has been acknowledged by WHITE front page bloggers on more than one occasion), it doesn't mean much.

When people don't ramble on and use personal tragedy from the past to deflect criticism of a poorly written diary, then he will be getting more respect. Gary Boatwright is African American and he had put out many diaries on MYDD which got a good response. Unfortunately, he started calling out other people who disagreed with him as trolls or idiots a little too much. But he never got attacked for posts that were just as provocative but did not include personal insults at fellow MYDDers.

As divisive as Sharpton and Farrakhan seem to be among whites, Francis should at least learn how to express himself as eloquently as those two leaders. Then he can start the whinefest.

And guess what. I am still waiting for that Francis Holland blog entry which addresses real African American issues, and not just a pityfest for Francis and a plug for Hillary. Just one freaking blog, please.


by Pravin on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 12:58:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No, she's not. (none / 0)

I would refer to Francis Holland as an attention-slut political manwhore, a one-trick pony whom no one of note or repute takes seriously, excitedly throwing manure at better people than himself, all in a desperate quest to become the next Tawana Brawley, but without Al Sharpton's class, style and wit. Not The Human Stain, more aptly, The Offshore Screech.

So no, 'bull in a china shop' fails in describing you, Francis. That description doesn't quite capture your eager bootlickery to The Powers That Be, and implies a relevance you feverishly imagine you have, but do not in fact possess. Notably, it also fails to capture your recent descent into fascism, via the 'only Christians should be allowed to speak for Democrats' Rassenlehre you've recently been peddling.

I hope that answers your question, and satisfies your manic need to see people talking about you.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 11:10:15 AM EST

Thank you for engaging with my ideas. (none / 0)

As for atheists/agnostics, I have merely stated the obvious:  Polls show atheist/agnostics to be unpopular with the general public, and recent history says that the anti-religious public statements of anti-religious bloggers are a real and present potential embarrassment to the candidates and the Party whom they support.  

Therefore, having a national presidential candidates' forum (YearlyKos) sponsored by a group whose online anti-religious pronouncements are searchable for all the world to see is not going to be a good move for Democratic candidates, progressives, or the Democratic Party.  There is nothing wrong with being an atheist or agnostic, but there IS something wrong with endeavoring to impose those views on a political party and its candidates, regardless of the electoral consequences.  

The atheist/agnostics who propose to host ALL of the Democratic party's candidates should either remove all of the anti-religious statements from their blog or cancel the conference before those anti-religious statements become the brand of the ALL of the Democratic candidates and our Party.  http://francislholland.blogspot.com/2007 /03/might-militant-publicly-atheist.html

Electing a Democratic president in 2008 is even more important than the right of the party's atheist/agnostics to use a Democratic candidates' forum as a way to increase their public prominence, at the expense of the party's electoral chances.  http://francislholland.blogspot.com/2007 /03/might-militant-publicly-atheist.html

But this is just one Black man's opinion.


by francislholland on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 12:09:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What ideas? (none / 0)

"You must shut up and clap at Hillary's coronation by the party establishment, because she does not have a penis. If you don't, it must be because you hate black people and/or spit on God".

That's the gist of what you're saying; Spinoza you're not, Francis.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 12:38:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

please look at my lower post (none / 0)

pretty please?


by timlhowe on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 01:20:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Pseudo "1984" anti-Hillary video (none / 0)

Yesterday, I saw a pseudo George Orwell/"1984" futuristic video against Hillary in which thousands of marchers march lock-step to the sound of Hillary's voice, posted here at MyDD by Matt Stoller.  Do you know what I noticed?  ALL of the marchers numbering in the hundreds, were white men.  http://mydd.com/story/2007/3/5/18237/723 62#commenttop

Why is it that when white men make futuristic videos, they almost never have any Black people in them.  Does the white future not include Blacks?  I noticed that with hundreds of marchers marching lock-step to Hillary's voice, there was not a single Black person's face in the futuristic crowd.  Are the this video's producers SO afraid of Hillary's women and Black and Latino supporters that these video producers need to scour the muliticultural face off of Hillary's support and replace us with 100% white men?  What gives?  http://mydd.com/story/2007/3/5/18237/723 62#commenttop

Is it an accident that ALL of the people in the lock-step crowd of the video are white men, or was it the intentional act of someone purposefully segregating out all of the potential women and minorities?  Did the video-makers pay the exclusively white male extras who appeared and, if so, how many women and minorities lost a day's pay and an acting opportunity simply because they are not white men?  http://mydd.com/story/2007/3/5/18237/723 62#commenttop

Is it "wrong" to ask this question, to challenge the color-blindness of those for whom color conscious and segregated videography is actually more important than actual facts and democragraphic?  The one woman in the video is the woman who destroys a television with hammer, preventing others from seeing a video that they were otherwise intent on watching.  A true "progressive", she.  Where are the women and minorities in this "progressive-made" video?  Are we not part of the "progressive" future?  http://mydd.com/story/2007/3/5/18237/723 62#commenttop


by francislholland on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 01:45:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This was the 1984 APPLE AD!!! (3.00 / 2)

You do know that this was not some mere 1984ish ad created by some white progressive organization. This was a the 1984 themed Superbowl ad that made Apple famous. All they did was replace the Orwellian old guy with Hillary's image and voice. So if you have a freaking problem, go back to 1984 and talk with the Apple ad campaign.

There are enough incidents of bigotry that there is no need for reaching desperately as you do. You only make it harder for the many people who have to put up with racist bullshit.

Regardless, your logic still fails to hold. Imainge if they had blacks and white women as the people marching in conformity, then you would be whining about how the ad guy feels blacks and women are stupid enough to fall for such talk. If anything, the lone holdout is a woman runner in this ad.


by Pravin on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 02:03:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah... (none / 0)

...the point of the video was precisely the drone uniformity of the audience, visually reinforced by tons of makeup.

Clutch at straws much, drone Francis?


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 02:10:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yeah... (none / 0)

He really outdid himself this time, didn't he. He is like one of those characters the Wayans brothers used to make fun of in In Living Color or one of their other shows. The so called outraged intellectual African American who would bore the crap out of everyone around him, including his fellow African Americans. They would find offense with any word. (example: niggardly).


by Pravin on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 02:21:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He does have a point sometimes (none / 0)

We all should be working for more minority participation in the blogosphere. Francis is right when he says there should be, need to be, more blacks involved. Problem is, his wild-assed tirades about Markos and white supremacy discredit those of us who are actually working in good faith to make the Progressive movement more diverse. Nobody wants to be associated with that kind of crapola, witness Liza Sabater.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 02:49:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you for engaging with my ideas. (none / 0)

"Polls show atheist/agnostics to be unpopular with the general public, and recent history says that the anti-religious public statements of anti-religious bloggers are a real and present potential embarrassment to the candidates and the Party whom they support.  "

Affirmative ACtion is unpopular in some areas. Do we just shut up about the need for affirmative action too? What a ridiculous statement.


by Pravin on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 01:02:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you for engaging with my ideas. (none / 0)

what in that quote is inaccurate.  Recent polls show that over 70% of americans say they would not support a presidential candidate that was an atheist.  Over 60% of Americans say they believe in a literal heaven and hell.  I know that many here think that their opinions matter than other americans, but these things in that quote must be understood when you are trying to develop a winning strategy to get back the White House.

Oh yeah, I forgot, that doesnt matter cause Hillary Clinton sucks!

Rock on....


by timlhowe on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 01:16:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you for engaging with my ideas. (none / 0)

I never said it was inaccurate. Just found it silly that he wants a niche group to shut up while he is demanding to be heard for his views supposedly representing a minority group in the US. If you do not want to give respect, then you will not get respect. If he is going to play a numbers game, then he will be victimized by the same logic.


by Pravin on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 01:32:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you for engaging with my ideas. (none / 0)

Pravin, Im not looking for respect, I came here to dialogue and I have seen you say horribly inaccurate, snide and mean things about someone I know, respect and yes, support and what Im not allowed to call you on it...BS...If you kept your disagreements to issues of policy and electoral probabalities and not personal attacks, maybe you wouldnt get it back in kind.


by timlhowe on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 03:22:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you for engaging with my ideas. (none / 0)

I assume you are referring to Hillary.
If you point out inaccuracies, I am glad to correct myself. I have done so in the past and issued corrections within the same day. I assume you are talking about Hillary. I could be snide and mean, but I am rarely inaccurate when I am saying i am stating a fact. Now I could speculate, and I will clearly indicate that it is speculation.
by Pravin on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 10:50:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you for engaging with my ideas. (none / 0)

Tim, I wasn't talking about you when i made the respect remark. I should have made it clearer. It was Francis.


by Pravin on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 10:51:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bullshit in a China Shop (none / 0)

That's what Francis is more like.


by Pravin on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 01:00:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Boy aren't you.. (none / 0)

a total blowhard bully and ass?

survey says...Yes!

Attack, attack attack!

Think not, think not, No!

Like many of your brethern here, you never learned how to disagree agrreably.  For a bloviator like you to call another man a facist is...well...why waste time...your loud and but insignifigant, so why give a f?

Frances is obviously a thinking fellow... though way too harsh about Al Gore which is why Ive never commented on his page - but I f-ing hate bullies and in this ether world of net brawling, you just seem to have won the prize.  Fake thug.  I betcha you got beat up a lot as a kid.


by timlhowe on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 01:10:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

by the way, the above was for BMNYC or whatever... (none / 0)

I think Pravin is a close minded Hillary hater but - I havent seem him try to bully anyone down that ive noticed...He just talks REAL LOUD


by timlhowe on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 01:19:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Um.... (none / 0)

...sorry, when someone says non-Christians need to be shut out of political discourse, sorry, that's  fascist. However, that is precisely what Francis said, even if I'm not going to link to that kind of garbage. You're defending the indefensible here, pal.

Like another commenter said above, I'm also waiting for a post from Francis that's not a pityfest about poor, persecuted, pitiful him or a plug for Hillary.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 01:31:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Shut out of political discourse? (none / 0)

shut out of political discourse

Did someone say that?  Where, precisely, did someone say that?  Are you paraphrasing?  Why not simply quote instead?  Are you afraid that my quote would not be as imflammatory as YOUR paraphrase?

I challenge you to quote where anyone here or elsewhere has said what you say they've said.

Should blatantly anti-Christian and anti-religious statements be removed from the blogs of those who wish to sponsor a Democratic Presidential debate?  I believe that would be wise, prudent and proactive, yes.  For a few statements that would fit this description, see the list of citations here:  http://francislholland.blogspot.com/2007 /03/might-militant-publicly-atheist.html

If you do not believe that the statements quoted at the link can be perceived and spun as anti-Christian and anti-religious then please say why with specificity, rather than just blowing smoke to obscure others' vision.


by francislholland on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 02:08:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sure. (none / 0)

In your own words, thread here:

As between bowing to Markos atheism [sic] or bowing to the public's religiosity, I'll take the public, because they have more votes in the aggregate than Mr. Moulitsas does. That's why our candidates talk about religion, and Markos needs to recognize and respect the political necessity, even when it is directly counter to his own atheism.

I don't care if this sounds like something the Republicans would say.

And here:

Many Democrats "progressives" would rather beat their atheist chests in public, regardless of the electoral consequences, rather than heed the polling data and keep their atheism private.

So yes, you want to exclude non-Christians from the polical conversation, which means you want to silence them. In practice, that means you also need to exclude Jews, tiny minority that they are.  Me, I think everyone should be able to take part in the political process, even if they embrace unpopular views like, oh, affirmative action or desegregation back in the day. And just BTW, even your core argument is false, because Kos has never had a religious test for anyone he supports; you're just smearing him because you're pissed he's not on board with Little Miss Perfect, and because of your own need for contrarian attention. Whatever, dude.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 02:41:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Um.... (none / 0)

oh and now hes not allowed to support someone you dont like?  Your a loud mouth fool.  I too like Hillary, but I have not and never would write a negative word about another candidate...I dont get angry at someone supporting another candidate, I just despise when people are mean hearted bullies about it...but not you, you know better, you know best!

What are the odds that you voted for Nader and put us in this mess to begin with?  I wonder...


by timlhowe on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 03:17:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Please. (none / 0)

I'm in New York, I know Hillary people, including some who work for her. They would probably be shocked at some of this rhetoric. Can't be helpful for them when some dude runs around antagonizing persuadables.

Re: Nader: whatever, dude. Weak.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 03:26:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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